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ERICW30

I live in appleton Ny and found this scratch, scat site in my side yard and thought it was from a bobcat or mountain lion. I do not know anyone who has ever seen either cat anywheres near here. Can you give your opinion please. I figured way too large to be a house cat. I know little about cat sign so I am looking for someone who has knowledge to let me know. I live in the country and found this as i wnet to my small woods to pic out a tree for shotgun to go in. there were no tracks near by as the ground was very hard. Pics taken around nov 1 2007. Thank you very much, Eric

fngonuts · Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 1:48 am Post subject:

Hope no one is sick of me putting in my 2 cents yet.

Well anyway this is how I see it. I can clearly see it has 5 claw marks.
The short one on the left must be from its dew claw. The dew claw sets further back than the others and would not penetrate as deep. Also the dew claw is on a slightly different inward angle giving this scratch a slight curve. Thanks to the measuring tape I can estimate that the paw would be about 3.5 inches wide which is average for a cougar.

This is a scrape pile. Cougars and similair large cats are known for making them. They are a territorial marker. A warning to other cougars that this is my territory and I will defend it. I think males are more often known for making scrape piles.

Do you know anyone with a game camera? It will most likely be back from time to time to remark its territory.

If you find this again it might be wise to collect a sample in a ziplock bag.

I'm sure someone wouldn't mind sending it out for DNA analysis

ERICW30 · Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 11:55 am Post subject:

Bloodhounds · Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 2:14 pm Post subject:

I would say it looks cat-ish but the length of the paw stroke seems too short for a cougar. Looks more like a large bobcat. A big Tom bobcat has a pretty big paw. Go look around at the pictures on here under Bobcats, Coyotes and Wolves and down in The Hunters.
It is hard to get pictures that show the viewer the true size of things. I like to put a quarter in the tracks or right next to scat when I take pictures. That gives a good ratio for judging size that stays the same even when you zoom in.
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fngonuts · Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 3:28 pm Post subject:

An object of any known size is just fine for comparision. I think a tape measure or a ruler is easier for calculations.

this is how I came up with 3.5"

First I measured the width of the scratch marks on my screen.
Just held a ruler up against it. I got a little under 1 5/8". I then measured 1 5/8" on his measuring tape it came to 3". Now remember cougar claws are in the middle of the toes which would make this animals paw wider than 3". I did take into consideration that the dew claw points inward but this shouldn't be more than a 1/2". This 1/2" should be more than made up for by the width of the toes that extend past the width of the claws. I don't know this will make sense to everyone. I do not consider myself good at explaining things.

It very well could be a very large bobcat. I am very impressed by Pa Guy's bobcat pictures. However I have to go with the most likely suspect.
I believe this paw must be atleast 3" wide based on my simple math skills. This would eliminate most bobcats.

Bloodhounds · Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 3:49 pm Post subject:

Ah but three inch paws would be a bobcat marking territory not a cougar kitten. Cougars have larger paws, usually four inches or more on a Tom which would be making territory markers. There is a Tom bobcat around here with three inch paws. I have tracked him some and he is a big boy. PAguy's cat probably also has large feet. It looks like a very big maybe 50# cat. I would have to say there is a higher probability these pictures are of a bobcat marker.
_________________
Tracking down the truth,

Bloodhound

fngonuts · Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 5:08 pm Post subject:

I agree with you it wouldn't surprise me at all to see a 3" wide bobcat track. Thats why I brought up PAguy's bobcat it is probably close. Based on popular research a large bobcat paw should only be 2.2 to 2.5" wide.
The average width only being 1.5" to 2"

I think I was pretty conservative by saying its atleast 3" wide. I think its more likely 3.25" to 3.5". The average for a cougar is 3.5" to 4". I happen to have a plaster cast of an adult cougar track that was given to me by another researcher. It only measures 3.25" wide. Thats why I would suspect a cougar over a bobcat.

ERICW30 · Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 5:55 pm Post subject:

Bearman58 · Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 6:36 pm Post subject:

I would have to say bobcat-it is not rare here in WNY, so it makes it the most likely suspect(remember Occam's Razor!) Also, I have a very small female cougar, and her paws are over 4" wide. The last adult male cougar I owned had paws over 7". Also, although the scat seems large-let me tell you-when a mountain lion poops-it looks like a big Rottweiler did it! LOL. Try baiting your trail cam with Obsession Perfume-it drives cats nuts. Texas A&M uses it to attract Ocelots to census them. Good Luck!!
_________________
What people believe is seldom the truth, and when faced with the truth, we seldom believe it.

Bloodhounds · Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 7:51 pm Post subject:

PaGuy · Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 7:53 pm Post subject:

"My" jumbo bobcat leaves tracks that are 2 inches. Others that I have talked to about bobcats, have never seen bobcats with tracks larger than 2 inches.
Just my 2 cents.

Bloodhounds · Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 8:58 pm Post subject:

I have measured 3 inch tracks here and lots of 2 inchers. I got pictures of the cat with the three inch ones and it was a bobcat. He is very large!
_________________
Tracking down the truth,

Bloodhound

fngonuts · Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 1:52 am Post subject:

WOW 7" paws!

How much did that thing weigh?

So anyone else dissapointed with their trail camera?

If I knew mine had a minute delay I probably wouldn't of bought it.
I don't want to see what went by a minute ago. Who knows what ya miss in that minute. Deffinately need something to keep anything in front of the camera. Unless it happens to be exactly a minute behind some deer or other prey. Thats why I decided to go with security cameras instead of buying more trail cameras.

Bearman58 · Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 5:31 am Post subject:

He weighed 165 lbs. Something else I thought of-when a cat is covering a kill or a scat pile, their paws are splayed-not the same as a track they make while traveling.
_________________
What people believe is seldom the truth, and when faced with the truth, we seldom believe it.

fngonuts · Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 3:18 pm Post subject:

Thats less than I would of thought. He must of had great weigh distribution. Do you know what part of the country he came from?
Do ya think this could be an adaptation to its environment?

I thought about the paws being splayed too. Scat piles are believed to be made by the hind legs. I'm not sure the hind paws would splay as much as the front paws. Plus making a kicking motion like that would put more downward pressure on the toes and I think the paw would splay more with pressure on the pad. I also thought the drag from the claws scratching the frozen ground would keep the toes from spreading much.

Just my thoughts anyway.